Tag: toch kidei dibur

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Torah Riddles Test #109

  1. Question: Why isn’t it a disruption between the blessing and the mitzvah if he said the wrong number then corrected himself?

Background:

  1. The Be’ur Halacha (25:9 “Vi’im hifsik”) says that even if one speaks one word between the blessing and mitzvah it is considered a disruption and you must say another blessing before performing the mitzvah, normally.
  2. You don’t have to say the blessing over again only if you realized immediately, toch kidei dibur, your mistake but if you realized a few seconds too late it is as if you finished the mitzvah (albeit in the wrong way) and what you said is a disruption so even in this case you would have to say another blessing and count correctly.

Answer: . As long as you are within toch kidei dibur you are trying to fulfill the mitzvah so you verbal action is still attached to the blessing you are just stumbling to say it correctly, that is not considered a disruption because you ae still involved in trying to perform the mitzvah.

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Torah Riddles Test #108

  1. Question:  If a person counted correctly but then immediately thought he counted wrong and “corrected” himself within toch kidei dibur, why does his counting still count?

Background:

  1. Toch kidei dibur is a halachic axiom that if one immediately corrects himself it is as if the first statement he says was never said and we go with the second statement. This is as long as the correction was made within the time it takes to say “shalom aleichem rebbe umoreh”.
  2. There is an argument between Rav Shlomo Zalman Aurbach zt”l and Rav Elyashiv zt”l whether toch kidei dibur could be applied to ruin something, or it just works to fix a mistake one said by accident. But in this case they will both agree for the same reason that switching the number immediately after one said the correct number of the omer will not erase what he originally said.
  3. The correction was a mistake, though if you did it you can still continue counting with a blessing the next night since the mistake does not count but Rav Elyashiv said you should count again without a blessing when you realize the mistake you made, though you don’t have to.

Answer: When you say the wrong number by the omer after you say the correct number it’s a complete mistake which you didn’t intend because you want to do the right count but according to Rav Aurbach when he says you can ruin something toch kidei dibur that is when there is some level of intent. It is not a complete mistake.

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Torah Riddles Test #32

Question: Why does the concept of “toch kidei dibur” work to correct oneself if he says the wrong day of the Omer but not if he mentions Shabbos instead of Yom Tov in his shemone esray?

Background:

 A. “Toch kidei dibur” is the concept of realizing one made a mistake and immediately correcting himself within a certain short amount of time which is the amount of time it takes for a student to greet his rebbe saying, “Shalom aleichem rebbe umoreh.”

B. The Mishna Berura (Orach Chaim 488:6:32) says “they further write that if one makes a mistake and says ‘today is the fourth day of the omer’ and toch kidei dibur remembers it is the fifth day, it is enough to just finish ‘fifth of the Omer’ and he fulfills the mitzvah even if he didn’t say ‘today is the fifth day’ since it was still within the allotted time of correction.

C. If one on Yom Tov says “mikadesh hashabbos” instead of “mikadesh Yisrael vihazmanim,” the Mishna Berura (487:3) says one must go back and say “mikadesh Yisrael vihazmanim” and it’s not enough just to correct oneself toch kidei dibur and say “Yisrael vihazmanim” after concluding “mikadesh hashabbos.”

D. When Yom Tov falls out on Shabbos we say in our shemone esray “mikadesh hashabbos Yisrael vihazmanim.”

Answer: Rav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach explains that it is not recognizable that you are correcting the mistake you made since that is just what you say on Shabbos Yom Tov but by the Omer it does look like he is correcting himself since one does not count twice in one day. (See Dirshu Mishna Berura there note 68.) [/exapnd]